Averil, you are making a huge contribution to the study of Looneys of Maughold on the bulletin board. So far you have been able to shake off any alternative descents suggested. However, I fell I must point out that I have a number of family trees prepared by Constance Radcliffe, photocopied from a collection in the Manx Museum about 5 years ago. There are quite a few differences between what she has and what you have. From your postings it is clear that you have some of her trees. As you have not told us that you disagree with anything that she says, I wonder if you have different trees from the ones that I have, trees that tally with what you are saying. I will set out what is on those trees, concentrating on all those John Looneys that have been so prominent in this thread.

There are two sheets of LOONEY Bwoaillee Losht (CKR’s usual spelling of the place, now part of Kerruish’s Ballafayle), and six sheets of LOONEY YACK (Jack) Crow Creen. The two BL families are joined by the 1832 marriage of William Looney from (2) and Margery Looney from (1). In A History of Kirk Maughold this family is touched on in a mere half sentence on p. 268: “…and there was a family of Looneys on the croft Bwoaillee Losht, below Ballafayle Kerruish, in the seventeenth century.” All the rest of her article relates to the Yack family.

Tree Bwoaillee Losht (1) starts with WILLIAM LOONEY (d 1718 E.2.) son of - Looney and Ann Costain (d 1720 A.71.) These are of course references to Episcopal and Archidiaconal wills. Where there is a 1 or 2 after the E or the A, that goes back to the days when researchers were given batches of original wills to leaf through, and if there were a lot of wills in a parish in one year they were split into more than one batch. Probably the wills numbered on for the whole year. The 1 and 2 probably have no significance for the modern researcher. William Looney m Joney Quilleash (d 1736 A2/59) (see Deed Maughold 1729/45). They had six children: John (c1700-1728); Ann; Margery (c1710), m 1732 William Looney – see sheet (2); Mary; Betty; and William.

John (c1700-1728 E.1) m 1721 Esther Teare (d 1775), who had previously m 1714 Samuel Christian, with 2 children and subsequently m 1730 William Stole with 3 children. John and Esther’s three children were William (d 7142 E.2) unm; Christian (1724) m 1748 Andrew Crebbin, Andreas; and Eleanor (1728) m 1760 John Cottiman, jr.

So far this is generally consistent with your posting of 1/8/2011 1:28 a.m.

Tree Bwoaillee Losht (2) starts with WILL LOONEY (d 1725 A1/86) m Mary (Corkill?). Their four children were Isable (1708); Hester (1710-1747 A2/101); William (1711-1758 A2/79) m Margery Looney from sheet (1); and Robert (d 1755).

William L and Margery L had four children, William (1732); John (1735-41); James (1739-1770) tailor in Ramsey; and Esther (1744).

Robert (d 1755) m Jane Kneen (d 1780 A/69). They had an only son John, and here comes the first upset. John (1750-1804 E 2nd 1805) Bwoaill’trooan, Dreemskerry (Spout House) m Margaret Hutchin (d 1802 E 2nd 1803). Their twelve children were John (1777 d [signifies that the person is assumed to have died in infancy]); William (1779-1806 E 2nd), weaver, m Elizabeth Callow with son William and other children; Esther (1781-1848) m Robert Corkill, Blacksmith; John (1781-1810 E 1st 1811), ?m Ann Costen (d 1809 E 1st 1810) with son William (1805); Daniel (1782 d); Thomas (1783 d); Margaret (1785-1853) m Matthew Paisley; Robert (1787-1809 A/77); Daniel (1789) Joiner at Cardle Veg 184 and 1851 m twice with children Daniel (1829), Matthew (1833), Catherine (1834) and William (1836); Thomas (1791 d); Isable 1792; and Mary (1797 d).

The Looney Yack trees are on six sheets, whose numbers are the same as on the chart with your posting of 27/7/2011, 5:34 a.m.

JOHN LOONEY OF Ramsey (d 1770 E1), bought ½ of Crow Creen from Mr. Phil Moore in 1748, m Margaret Kelvie (or Kelvin) (m 2 (1770) William Creetch, Ballachrink). Their nine children were William; Daniel (1745-1826 A48), inherited Crow Creen, m Isabel Cashen (d 1838); John (1748-1835) Boshin (Gob-ny-Scout), - here comes the next upset – m Isabel Camaish (d 1817); Thomas (c1750-1826 A44) Part of Ballagilley, m Isabel Moore (d 1823 A61); James [sic. Perhaps she made a slip. You have Jane]; Robert (1757-1826 A46) E Ballaterson and Maughold Village, m Margaret Cannell (d 1831 2nd E); James (1760); Patrick (1764-1816) m Catherine Cowle; Ewan (1766) Crow Creen, Ballaskeig Beg, Magher-e-Kew, m Mary Taggart.

Daniel and Isabel Cashen had eight children, John (1770) [no subsequent history given for him or any of these, apart from the husbands of the last two]; Robert (1773); Margaret (1775); William (1779); Mary (1732); Thomas (1785); Jane (1789) m – Caley; Esther (1792) m – Quayle.

On sheet (2) Boshin (Gob-ny-Scoute) we start with JOHN LOONEY (1748-1835 A 1836.54) m Isabel Camaish (d 1817 A84). Their four children are John (1788); Eliza (1794 d x [signifies smallpox]); Margaret (1790), m William Stowell with children William and Isabella, who inherited John Looney’s property); and Robert (1799).

John (1788) m Rachel Redhead, first innkeepers of the Hibernian Inn (called after Rachel), emigrated to Australia 1842. Their five children were Sarah (1810); Isabella (1813 corrected to 1811 or possibly vice versa -1893), m Joseph Looney, Crow Creen, son of Ewan Looney and Mary Taggart – see p (6); Margaret (1818), had dau Mgt Gelling 1837; John Joseph (1819-189?) unm, Came to Adelaide with parents. 1855 Moved to Auckland. 1856 Moved to New Plymouth [there is some uncertainty about how the dates and events associate]; Sarah (1821).

Robert (1799-1853) Shoemaker at the Corony Bridge, m Isabella Lewin (d between 1848 and 1851). Their six children were Isabella (1829); Margaret (1831) m – Kermeen; Robert, Farmer (1834-1873) m and went to Galva, Ill; Elizabeth (1837-1924) m John Wark, Tanner, Valparaiso, Ind [there’s your answer to the frustrations of your posting of 27/7/2011, 12:09 a.m. and answering postings]; John (1840-1907?) Galva, Ill, bought bro Robert’s farm; James (1843-1917) to Kansas City, coal and wood merchant, m twice.

I won’t go into sheets (3) to (6) unless asked to do so, because they are not controversial, except to confirm that on p (6) Joseph L and Isabella L had 6 children, of which the eldest was Sarah (1839), who m William Goldsmith, Australia.

Your posting of 1/8/2011, 1:28 a.m. neatly relates the progenitors of BL (1) and Yack by showing that they were brothers.

Now what are we going to do about these discrepancies? In assembling their materials genealogists start with a number of family groups. Each usually consists of a man, with a name and date of death, married to a woman with a name and a date of death, and a date of their marriage, and a number of children, with baptismal dates. The impressive array of deeds of sale, wills and receipts that you have given us, particularly in your Time Line, have given us just that, with a few sons in law and the transmission of a property. What we could really do with are daughters in law, but their names are lacking. The genealogist’s judgement is needed to identify a child of one family, say John Looney, with the parent, also called John Looney, of another. This is the part that needs to be justified where there is disagreement. Several times you have confidently asserted that a John Looney, married to a particular wife, was baptised on a particular date. These assertions may well be true, but left me wondering. Averil, do you think that the evidence that you have amassed could be compatible with Mrs. Radcliffe’s sheets as I have set them out above? One place in your scheme that troubled me was the John that married Isable Camaish in 1788. If he was only born in 1770 as you have him, rather than in 1748 as CKR has him, that would make him only 17 or 18 at marriage, not impossible of course, but unusual in the farming families of those days.

I was going to go into detail about the children of John Looney and Joney Quillease, but perhaps I can do that in an e-mail, and post the result if there is any change from your posting of 1/8/2011, 1:28 a.m. Do you still have the same paradisal e-mail address as in 2008?

One last point – I am interested in John Looney b at Ramsey 1 July 1816, m 20 June 1843 Mary Callow. Does any one know his ancestry?