Keith, could you buy your grandfather JOHN CHARLES VICTOR JOUGHIN's birth cert (b 20/06/1907) which will give both gt grandparents' full names, and from that information buy their marriage cert? The marriage cert will give his father's name and occupation which should help locate him in censuses, and from that info. you will be able to buy your gt gt grandfather's birth cert ... etc. If you start with the two certs, above, and then post those details, we should be able to link your family into one of Philip's numerous charts, or my Andreas Joughins. (The Charles Js look likely to be the Andreas ones.)

Sue