After Sue’s announcement I have to respond and admit to what she says.

This next paragraph is for Gail. Gail, my guess is that your husband is David Richard Joughin, as he is the only grandchild of Charles Edwin and Ethel that I have found. I think I have your marriage, in 1984, but perhaps we could continue this on e-mail. My address is pjallen@btinternet.com. I would be most interested to hear from you, or if you wanted to post your e-mail address on this board, I could write to you.

Charles Edwin Joughin and Ethel Moore were married at Maughold 1920 Nov. 1st. He was aged 27, bachelor, hairdresser, of 4 Cannells Lane, Ramsey, son of John Joughin, houseman. She was aged 28, spinster, of Ballure Farm, Maughold, daughter of Thomas Moore, farmer. The witnesses were Claude Henry Joughin [brother of the groom] and Lavinia [I think] Corlett.

For earlier history we pass to Sandra, who has the right family, and Donna, whose speculations I agree with, with some comments.

Under Donna’s section 2, the 1891 census, she has John Edward 11 Apr 1884 Ram. This was Mary Ann’s first child. He and his descendants, still around in the south of the Island, kept her own name of Joughin. She went on to have 6 more children after her marriage to William Greaves in 1891.

Looking at the names in the 1901 census, Maud and Florence were half-sisters of Charles Edwin Joughin. Their mother was Nannie Brokenshire (variously spelled), who married in May 1881 and died in 1888, so not appearing in a census as a Joughin. Emily Kelly, or Kells, was the mother of the four later children.

Section 4, the 1871 census, there were two others in the household, Charlotte, 49, Ballaugh, and Charlotte, 12, Maughold, mother and daughter of William.

In the 1861 Jurby census at Ballavorrey Cottage the three Joughins that Donna lists were all shown as visitors, the head being Isabella Cottier, widow, 60, labourer, Ballaugh. There was also Sophia Cottier, daughter, unmarried, 24, labourer, Ballaugh, and James Wade, grandson, 1, Jurby. From what Donna tells us later in her posting, Isabella must have been Charlotte Joughin’s mother, so one wonders why she didn’t put them down as her daughter and granddaughters.

Section 8, John Joughin’s birth place. He was baptised at Andreas. The 1851 census says he was born in Bride; 1861 says it was Andreas; 1871 merely says Isle of Man.

I haven’t followed the parentage of the wives, and have no reason to doubt Donna’s speculations there.

1788 John had an elder brother Charles, of Ballagenny (as it was then spelled), Bride. One of his great-grandsons was Charles John Joughin (1878-1956), baker aboard the Titanic, and seen in the films. Charles of Ballagenny and 1788 John were sons of John Joughin and Joney Killip of Ballagenny. Sue has traced this family back to a family of Joughins living at Leodist (the favoured spelling at the time), Andreas.