Hi again Jean,

Yes, I have looked at that family and followed them through and back. The Elizabeth and Thomas ( parents) were born Manchester. My FIL clearly states, that his grandfathers parents came from IOM. I traced this Thomas back and his parents were also b. Manchester. So I ruled them out.

Its also not so far fetched that a plumber could turn Joiner. My own father was a plumber/carpenter. That 1881 census also has williams cousin ( also William ) as a joiner. Perhaps william was learning the trade, from this William.

Jackie