Almost sorted it out but in the 1871 census I've found only Elizabeth age 58 and Moses 11 are in Arbory ref. The rest of the chn, Benjamin 19, Catherine 15, Thomas 21 and John 25 are with what could be their father John age 63 in Rushen but now with Ellen 59. Also Jonathan 12 whom I've learnt had a mother called Eleanor. Could the whole family be so separated on census day? How has Ellen suddenly appeared? Thanks for info