just to add & to add conjecture on conjecture Edward Oates is another unusual name - there was one baptised to Richd oates with mother Elizth Cubbon in 1759 - unfortuneately Elizth is not that uncommon but Patience could have a younger sister Elizth thus giving Edwd as cousin - both daus of a Wm Cubbon (both bapt Braddan but there is some confusion as 2 Wm Cubbon's active in Braddan in this period)