hidden-metaphor

Manx Genealogy Archive 2

Re: Lord Stanley Research RADCLIFFE
In Response To: Re: Lord Stanley Research ()

Two brothers: James Ratcliff of Belfast buried 1689, who married Nelly KINREAD, and John Ratcliff of Crot-e-Lough died 1669 [will]. It was John's son John who died in 1701, and John the younger’s eldest son Thomas who inherited Crot-e-Lough.
Both Johns died young(ish).

There were two separate Radcliffe lines from the sons of Gilbert RADCLIFFE & Margaret KINRY: the ones who descended from James and Nelly Kinread in Belfast, and the ones who descended from John d.1701 in Crot-e-Lough.

Dr Shaw was writing about the Belfast line, and using the research of two William Radcliffes from the early 1900s: William schoolmaster of Andreas, later of London, and William of Chester from the Belfast family line.
Constance Radcliffe also used their research, but changed the families around when she found errors. Unfortunately some of her families - especially the Belfast ones - still ended up with some wrongly placed descendants. All these researchers appeared to miss two crucial documents.

So far as the descendants of John of Crot-e-Lough d.1701 were concerned, the connection between him, his eldest son Thomas y Vayr, with other son Philip d.1762, and daughter Jony Kinry als Radcliffe, was missed because John's wife died as Kneale and the researchers apparently didn't see her will which connected these siblings.
The second apparently missed document was the decree for Thomas y Vayr which again named the siblings. This decree is erroneously dated 1730: "Jan.30 1730 K Andreas. Thomas Ratcliffe (y Vair) departed this life about the 24 of Novr last...". Yet Thomas was buried 24 Nov. 1732.

The early researchers therefore didn't make the connection from Thomas the eldest son of John d.1701 who was entered for Crot-e-Lough in 1705 to Thomas y Vayr/Vair, nor with his relationship to Philip d.1762. Philip's descendants were usually "given" to his cousins' Belfast families, including in the published articles. One such person was the author of "Ellan Vannin", a descendant of Philip's.
See http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/worthies/p053.htm which explains my reasoning for this conclusion.

The descendants of John d.1701 lived near each other in Andreas, and in the 1757 Visitation they were visited in this order:
Ewan & Joney Kinry +2 +2
[Ewan Kinry & Joney Radcliffe b.1720 (dau of Thomas Ratcliffe y Vayr d.1732) marr. 1746.]

Philip & Jony Radcliffe +2
[Philip & Jony Teare with their only 2 children: sons John b.1733 (marr 1759) & Thomas b.1737 (marr.1772). Younger brother of Thomas y Vayr d.1732, the sons of John Radcliffe CROT e LOUGH. Uncle of John & Thomas Radcliffe y Vayr (3 & 4 households following). Thomas, the above son b.1737, was grandfather of Rev.W.T. Radcliffe author of "Ellan Vannin”, and their cousins (descended from elder brother Thomas y Vayr) were Charles Bland R. and John Netten R. – all staunch Methodists.

Two other households, then:

John Radcliffe & his wife Isabel Caine +3
[John (Y VAYR) eldest son of Thomas y Vayr of BALLAVARRY GATE – elder brother of Thomas Radcliffe in following household.
John 1718-1786 married Isabel Caine, eldest son John b.1744. Thomas b.1746/7 (not found later), triplets b.1751, Philip 1753-1815, Ohio, James “son of John Radcliffe (Vear) April 21” 1757.]

Thos & Ann Radcliffe +1
[Thomas (Y VAYR). Thomas (son of Thomas y Vayr) 1725-1796 & Ann Sayle marr.1750, later of Cronk Breck (purchase 1778). With son Philip 1755-1758. Ann SAYLE the dau of Philip Sayle (eldest son of Philip d.1722 ye Craig) and 1st wife Bahey Cotter.]

Dr Shaw's wife Helen (Gertie) Radcliffe was another descendant of Philip's whose family we think was wrongly placed with their cousins in the Belfast line. We believe from family wills and other records that her grandfather was Thomas bapt 13 July 1794, son of Philip Radcliffe (the grandson of Philip Radcliffe & Joney TEARE) & Elinor CHRISTIAN. Thomas (“Tommy the gardener”) married Catharine CLAGUE 20 May 1834 Lezayre.

CR wrote in her 'Belfast' section: "Dr. Cunliffe Shaw, then of Manchester, whose wife was another Belfast Radcliffe...." and that “…younger brother James (1738-1810) who married Catherine Corkish, and who was the ancestor of the Radcliffes of Farrant's Fort, and of Mrs. Cunliffe Shaw”. We think that the Thomas to whom she referred, and who was almost the same age as the other Thomas, died soon after birth along with his brother. The two burials are in the Andreas parish register, and these two sons do not appear in any family wills, although the other siblings are named.

This was the problem with part of the published Radcliffe Andreas research – in that a whole line was omitted, and the better known descendants were linked to the Belfast family.

Sue