We have three connections here between Joughins and Bruces. Since this discussion was started by a quest to find out about Bruces, I’ll start by setting out what I know about Bruces, for which I rely almost entirely on a file by Donna Douglass submitted to the LDS a while ago. She sets out the four censuses from 1851 to 1881 when Robert Bruce was married to his first wife, Ann Christian, and when he was a widower. The words in brackets would be her annotations.
!1851 Bride Census District 3 Page 51 #41:
Charles Christian head married age 74 Farm Labourer born Bride.
Esther Christian wife married age 44 born Andreas.
Robert Bruce son in law married age 38 born Malew
Ann Bruce daughter age 25 born Bride
Margaret Bruce visitor widow age 77 farmer's widow born Scotland
James Bruce grandson age 8 scholar born Andreas.
!1861 Bride Census District 3 Page 11 #49 - Ballacowle:
Robert Brew (Bruce) head married age 49 Farmer born Malew
Ann Brew (Bruce) wife married age 35 Dressmaker born Bride
Esther Christian mother in law widow age 55 born Andreas.
!1871 Bride Census District 2 Page 11 #48 Ballacowell Farmhouse:
Robert Bruce head married age 59 Farmer
Ann Bruce wife married age 44 Dressmaker
Esther Christian mother in law widow age 64 Annuitant
Sarah Kelly adopted unmarried age 14 scholar
All born IOM.
!1881 Bride Census District 3 Page 7 #33 - Church Road:
Robert Bruce head widower age 60 Grocer born Malew
Esther Christian mother in law (not mother) age 75 housekeeper born
Andreas
Note the anomalous age for Robert Bruce in 1881. Probably they meant to say 70.
Donna is approaching this from the direction of Ann Christian, the first Mrs. Robert Bruce, so in the next section we have her details first, then his, including his second marriage, to Margaret Ann Joughin.
75. Ann Christian (Esther Joughin-4, Charles-3, Andrew-2, Charles-1) was christened on March 3, 1826 in Bride, Isle of Man. She died on June 29, 1871 in Bride, Isle of Man. She was buried on July 1, 1871 in Bride, Isle of Man. !CHR: 3 Mar 1826 Kirk Bride Parish Christening Records FHL Film #0106713 daughter of Charles Christian and Esther Joughin.
!MARRIAGE: 6 May 1848 Kirk Bride Marriage Records FHL Film #0106713
married Robert Bruce
!DEATH: 29 Jun 1871 Kirk Bride Book of Monumental Inscriptions #136:
Erected by Robert Bruce, of this parish, in memory of his beloved wife Ann Bruce (alias) Christian, who departed this life June 29th 1871 Aged 44 years. Her end was peace. Also Robert Bruce of Glentruan, who departed this life June 8th 1899 in his 88th years. Also Margaret Ann, wife of the above who died at Glentruan, Kirk Bride, Jane 15th 1933.
!BURIAL: 1 July 1871 Kirk Bride Parish Burial Record #456 Page 57 FHL Film #0106180.
She was married to Robert Bruce on May 6, 1848 in Bride, Isle of Man. Robert Bruce was christened in 1811. He died on June 8, 1899 in Bride, Isle of Man. !CHR: 1811
!FIRST MARRIAGE: 6 May 1848 Bride Parish Marriage Records FHL Film #0106713 married Ann Christian daughter of Charles Christian and Esther Joughin.
!SECOND MARRIAGE: 18 Feb 1882 Bride Parish Marriage Records FHL Film #0106180 married Margaret Ann Joughin
!EPISCOPAL WILL Bride 1899 #182 FHL Film #0106533:
This is the last will and testament of me Robert Bruce of Glentruan in the parish of Bride which I make and declare this twenty seventy day of January one thousand eight hundred and ninety eight. I bequeath unto James Bruce, Elizabeth Jane Kilnar and John Bruce children of my late brother William Bruce the sum of ten pounds each. I bequeath unto the children of Ann Clucas daughter of my said late brother William Bruce and wife of William Clucas of Douglas the sum of ten pounds to be divided equally between them share and share alike. I bequeath unto the said John Bruce the whole my wearing apparel. I bequeath unto my wife Margaret Ann Bruce the whole of my household furniture goods and effects of every description. I devise unto Sarah Jane Kelly daughter of John Kelly of the said parish of Bride (christened 4 Nov 1860 Bride) (Mother Ann Joughin) in and by virtue of a power of appointment vested in me by a certain Deed of Sale in trust bearing date the twenty fourth day of January one thousand eight hundred and seven one and made between me and my deceased wife Ann Bruce of the one part and James Kneale of Aust in the parish of Lezayre of the other part certain lands and premises near Cranstal Lough in the said parish of Bride which said lands and premises are more particularly described in and by the said Deed to have and to hold the same with all appurtenances thereto belonging or in anywise appertaining unto the said Sarah Jane Kelly her heirs and assigns absolutely subject nevertheless to the payment by her to my said wife Margaret Ann Bruce the sum of thirty pounds being the amount due and owing under a certain Deed of Bond and Security bearing date the 12th day of January 1854 granted and passed by me and my deceased wife and her mother to John Gawne of Bride for the principal sum of twenty nine pounds an secured upon the premises hereby devised to the said Sarah Jane Kelly the amount of which Bond and Security having been recently paid by me to Elizabth Christian the assigner thereof and which sum of thirty pounds I direct and declare is to be a preferential claim lien and charge upon the said lands and premises until finally paid off and shall be recoverable out of the said premises as of the same had been a mortgage legally chargeable thereon. I devise unto my said wife Margaret Ann Bruce all and singular a certain parcel of land purchased by me from Charles Banks Nelson trustee of Thomas Potts by Deed of Sale bearing date the 30th day of June 1886. Also all and singular certain lands and premises adjoining the above mentioned and which I became entitled to in right of my said wife to have and to hold the same unto my said wife Margaret Ann Bruce here heirs and assigns absolutely. I devise unto my said wife Margaret Ann Bruce certain lands and premises situate in the said parish of Bride part of the Quarterland of Glentruan purchased by me from John Skinner and wife by Deed dated the 26th day of June 1877 To have and to hold the same unto my said wife for and during the term of her natural life or so long as she shall remain my widow and from and after her decease or second marriage which ever event shall first happen then I devise the said lands and premises unto the children of my late Brother William Bruce in equal shares as tenants in common and not as joint tenants but I direct that in case any of the children of my said brother shall predecease my said wife leaving lawful issue surviving then the share of the said lands and premises to which the said child so dying would have been entitled if living shall be divided equally amongst his or her children share and share alike. I nominate constitute and appoint my said wife Margaret Ann Bruce executrix of this my said last will and testament. Robert Bruce Signed published and declared by the testator as and for his last will and testament in our presence who at his request in his presence and in presence of each other all being present at the same time have hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses.
Edward Kelly
Richard Pass
Margaret Ann Bruce sworn executrix 6 Nov 1899.
John Bruce No. 2 South Quay Douglas died 13th August 1900 whereas Thomas Lewin was appoint administrator of all and singular the personal estate of the said deceased John Bruce
Thomas Lewin rec'd 10 lbs 7 Dec 1900.
2 lbs 10 shillings received each by William McLaughlin Douglas Sergeant of Police, Elizabeth Jane McLaughlin formerly Clucas his wife, Anne Abigail Clucas, Douglas, spinster,
George William Clucas of Arbory farmer
William Henry Clucas Douglas joiner children of Anne Clucas on 24th July 1900.
Nephew James Bruce 10 lbs sterling 7 Aug 1900.
Niece Elizabeth Jane Kilner 10lbs (John Kilner)
Now for some comments on Ray Bruce’s message of 23rd January.
The age of Robert Bruce again. The headstone transcript above says he died on June 8th 1899 in his 88th year. I take that to mean that he would have reached 88 later that year. That puts his birth in the later part of 1811, which is consistent with the age given in the 1861 and 1871 censuses. Perhaps 11/6/1899 was the burial date.
Jane Crowe, sister of Margaret Ann Bruce, née Joughin. They were actually half sisters. Margaret Ann’s parents were Mark Joughin and Mary Kneen, née Quayle. Both parents were on their second marriages. Mary’s first husband, whom she married in 1832, was William Kneen. They had a daughter, Jane, baptised at Lezayre in 1833. William Kneen must have died when Jane was young, for her mother’s second marriage, to Mark Joughin, came in 1841, with Margaret Ann Joughin, the only child of the second marriage, baptised at Bride in January 1844. The two girls, 11 years apart and brought up together by their mother, must have felt like full sisters. Jane married John Crowe at Bride in 1860. When Ray mentions sister Jane Crowe he puts the name Joughin in brackets after it. I don’t know if that was Ray’s annotation or something from the record. If the latter, it suggests that Jane before her marriage was known by her step-father’s name of Joughin, rather than her late father’s name of Kneen.
We see the family in the 1871 census at Glentruan Farm House. Frustratingly, all the birth places are simply given as Isle of Man.
John Crowe, h, m, 30, Fisherman
Jane Crowe, w, m, 29
Eliza Jane Crowe, d, u, 10, Scholar
John Joseph Crowe, s, u, 7, Scholar
Alfred Crowe, s, u, 5
Rebekka Crowe, d, u, 2
Mary Joughin, mother in law, wid, 71, Annuitant
Note the head’s name is given as John, his son John Joseph.
Perhaps in later censuses we will find that Margaret Ann and her husband Robert Bruce have moved in with her half-sister Jane at Glentruan. By the time Margaret Ann died in 1933 her beneficiaries would have been on the elderly side, the youngest being 65. Perhaps not all were still alive by then. I see that son John Joseph is absent from Ray’s list.
Now for the Joughin connections.
Margaret Ann’s father Mark Joughin was from the family that originated in Crosby farm, on the east coast of Bride. Although his second marriage produced only the one daughter, his first, to Margaret Cannell in 1818, produced two sons, Andrew and Robert. Andrew went with his Welsh wife to Liverpool, and by the end of 1854 they and their three young children (none reached 5) were all dead. Robert, on the other hand, married a Joughin, Ann, daughter of Charles from the Andreas main line. This couple had several children in Bride before emigrating to New Zealand, where they lived in the famous Stone House, Mt. Eden Road, Auckland. The number of their descendants must be well into three figures by now.
So Robert Bruce’s second father in law was a Joughin, Mark of the Crosby line. RB’s first mother in law, was also a Joughin, Esther Christian, née Joughin, the daughter of Charles Joughin and Ann Kee of the Andreas main line of Joughins. Esther was a half-sister of the Charles (1778-1856) mentioned in the previous paragraph. Their father was also called Charles (1757-1806). The younger Charles was only about four months old when his mother Margaret Christian died before she had had time to marry the baby’s father. Before having any more children the father married Ann Kee in 1783, and she bore him eleven children, of which Esther was the youngest, born in 1805. Here is what Donna has on Esther and her husband Charles Christian:
43. Esther Joughin (Charles-3, Andrew-2, Charles-1) was christened on January 13, 1805 in Andreas, Isle of Man. She died on June 18, 1884 in Bride, Isle of Man. She was buried on June 20, 1884 in Bride, Isle of Man. !CHR: 13 Jan 1805 - Kirk Andreas Parish Christening records FHL Film
#0106704 daughter of Charles Joughin and Ann Kee.
!MARRIAGE: 3 May 1825 Kirk Bride Parish Marriage Records FHL Film #0106713 married Charles Christian.
!DEATH: 18 Jun 1884 - Kirk Bride Old Graveyard Monumental Inscriptions #137: Erected by Esther Christian in memory of her husband Charles Christian who departed this life on the 25th day of January 1852 in the 76th year of his age. Also Esther wife of the above who died 18th June 1884 aged 79 years.
!BURIAL: 20 Jun 1884 - Kirk Bride Parish Burial Record #704 page 88 FHL Film #0454984.
She was married to Charles Christian on May 3, 1825 in Bride, Isle of Man. Charles Christian was christened on August 25, 1776 in Bride, Isle of Man. He died on January 25, 1852 in Bride, Isle of Man. He was buried on January 25, 1852 in Bride, Isle of Man.
!CHR: 25 Aug 1776 Kirk Bride Parish Christening Records FHL Film #0106713 son of Daniel Christian and Bridged Goldsmith.
!MARRIAGE: 3 May 1825 Kirk Bride Marriage Records FHL Film #0106713 married Esther Joughin daughter of Charles Joughin and Ann Kee.
!BURIAL: 25 Jan 1852 - Kirk Bride Parish Burial Record #58 page 8 FHL Film #0106180.
!EPISCOPAL WILL Bride 1852 #44 FHL Film #0106452:
At a Chapter Court, holden at Ramsey on the 11th day of June 1852.
Charles Christian of the parish of Kirk Bride having departed this life on or about the twenty fifth day of January last intestate; and this court having received intelligence thereof, hath (for the preservation of the rights of all persons concerned) Decreed his only child Ann wife of Robert Bruce sole administratrix of all and singular the goods, rights, credits, chattels, and effects, moveable and immoveable whatever of the said deceadent. And Esther Christian the said deceadents widow is in trust thereupon sworn, well and truly to administer the same to pay all the Intestate's just debts and funeral expenses so far forth as the goods will extend and the law bind; and return into the Episcopal Registry a full, true, and perfect inventory thereof, and an accurate account of all transactions, touching the same when thereunto lawfully required. And to these ends the said Esther Christian hath given pledges in form of law, namely Thomas Lace and Robert Bruce both of KK Bride who have executed the usual bond to that effect in presence of the court.
Decretum Est T. A. Corlett
Whereas the Eccl Court of this Diocese hath this day granted Administration of all and singular the goods and effects of Charles Christian late of Bride deceased, to Esther Christian his widow in trust for the next of kin of said deceased.
And whereas Thomas Lace of Kerrowdhoo in the parish of Bride and Robert Bruce in the parish of Bride and Robert Bruce of Ballacowle in the parish of Bride have agreed to become pledges to the said Esther Christian for the due administration of the said Estate according to law. Therefore know all men by these Present, that we, the said Thomas Lace and Robert Bruce hereby bind and oblige ourselves and our Executors and Administrators, as pledges to the said Esther Christian for the due and faithful administration of the goods and effects of the said deceased according to law. And in her default we bind ourselves and our Executors and administrators to be answerable to all parties interested in the said Estate, or the Administration thereof.
Witness our subscriptions this Eleventh day of June 1852. Thomas Lace and Robt Bruce
At a Chapter Court held in Ramsey the 11th June 1852.
Taken by me T A Corlett
This grant of administration is confusing at first. Was it to the daughter or the widow? My interpretation is that on 11th June, the date that keeps being mentioned, the grant was to the widow, Esther, and that on some earlier date, probably soon after the death on 25th January, Ann applied to the court and obtained a temporary grant to dispose of perishables, and keep things running, she and her husband being best placed to do so. Although the legal position changed in June, I don’t suppose it made any difference to the way the estate was distributed in practice.
The third connection between Joughins and Bruces arises out of the will of Robert Bruce, above. He mentions Sarah Jane Kelly. This is how Donna has it:
Ann Christian and Robert Bruce had the following children:
Sarah Jane Kelly was christened on November 4, 1860 in Bride, Isle of Man.
!Sarah Jane Kelly was adopted (her father was John Kelly and her mother was Ann Joughin). See her adopted father's will #0106533 Bride 1899. #182.
She was christened in Bride on 4 Nov 1860. Apparently her mother died and she was adopted by the Bruce's. Need to check this out. See if there is an actual record. She did not appear on census until 1871 when she was about 14. Age is off she would have been about 11. She may have married at age 20 to Joseph Clague. Need to check this out as well.
The Ann Joughin mentioned came from a third independent line of Joughins, from the Purt farm on the east coast of Bride, north of the Bride Hills. In 1871 her mother had not died, but was alive and kicking, as were her babies. By then she had had twelve, of which Sarah Jane was the third, and went on to have a further five. No wonder they farmed out some of the older children, in her case to a childless couple of suitable parenting age. The adoption must have been a rather informal business. At the 1881 census she is back with her parents John and Ann Kelly at the Kimmeragh farm, Bride, with eleven of her siblings. In 1891 she is still there, still unmarried, at West Kimmeragh, with her parents, three siblings and grandmother Joughin.
Ray, I prepared this response before reading your latest message. I did read the archived 2007 thread, but found it hard to follow. What you now seem to be saying is this. Your great-grandfather was James Bruce, born in 1843, illegitimate son of Ann Cowley. Although Robert Bruce’s will suggests that this was his brother William Bruce’s son, in fact it was Robert’s, and the nephew James who received £10 in 1900 was in fact his son, under some subterfuge reminiscent of the medieval popes who passed off their unofficial sons as nephews. The 1851 census bears out the idea of James being Robert’s, as James is said to be the grandson of Charles Christian – as if his daughter and son in law thought of this boy, born to another woman before their marriage, as their own.
Is that how you see it? Can you tell us what you think happened and, if that’s OK, you own descent from him. Do you think there was another James Bruce, who really was William’s son, and who got the £10?