Hi Diane, many thanks, I knew somebody would be much better than me at finding themand it wasn't for the wont of trying! I don't wonder I couldn't find them in 1871 and following censuses. I will definitely ask for any MI's and thank you again. The only difference I had was that Elizabeth Margaret Gelling had died in 1882 but for her to have died in 1867 would explain a lot! I had obviously got the wrong EMG.