Thanks for the info Bruce, I had seen them in the 1871 census. As I said to Frances I found a Thomas Shimmin in the 1861 census living with his Grandmother Ellen Hudgson and the only reference I have found to a marriage between Shimmin and Hudgeon is of Thomas Shimmin and Jane Hudgson living on South Quay in Douglas who seem to have a child called John born in 1859 so whether they are twins and one not registered I'm not sure yet .Will have to do some more research into the Hudgson side of it to find the names of the daughters who married , There is also another grandchild Louisa Madrell living with the grandmother so there must have been at least two daughters. So i have some hard work ahead as Hudgson is an awkward name to look for ,as it could be down as Hudson or Hudgeon or Hutchin, I don't know,but if I can find the daughter and her husband then i may be in with a chance, Still many thanks or your response