Bruce, Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately the 1841C index is incorrect regarding the family of John Creer, Elizabeth, Paul and other siblings at German 3.2.7 . When the original census film was checked we found that this family was in fact Kneale - and not Creer! So this is a red-herring unfortunately. I have traced all the sons of John and Sarah and their families in the various censuses and there is no sign of John with them. Hence my trying to clutch at the straw of the marriage register information. The sons were variously lead miners and farmers but there was no signficant ownership of land that I can tell so the land records are not much help either.

cheers and thanks again