Thanks for the web site Mary .I had seen the 1871 with John age 6 but as you know these dates were often guess work on the 1891 census he is 24 making his bith year 1867.He was illiterate as he has just made his mark on his marriage certificate & gives his age as full so that does not help. I will keep on digging let me know if you come up with anything. Guess it must have been very "breezy" on Douglas prom I have visited dozens of times but always in the summer. Thanks Val