Tim thanks, that makes much more sense - I can't recall what made me think I could not find them in Island baptisms (I'd noted the Robert + Ann Kermode children, guess should have checked for her burial and a quick remarriage, suspect that + Whitehaven marriage is what threw me, as now viewed at leisure I find I even have the later children in my database of DSG baptisms, though these are not yet linked to parents (Horatio BTW is shown as dying a week after christening), put it down to influence of Boxing day!

Did J.J. emigrate (I note you changed heading on message - bit surprising as family looked well off - I couldn't find him in 1881 census nor in Brian's Burial Index. I havn't pursued yet why Robert's son Edward took over the Timber firm, Robert's brother William always seemed to be leading partner in any write ups.