Hi Jean, You really are something else ! Yes ,I am on ancestry thats where I got the marriage certificate, and the witnesses are not on it, and Wm. Wheatcrofts profession does look like Brass Finisher, I thought the B was P and the F is clear. You found Patrick and Eliza and Mary in minutes when I've got no where. My daughter says Ancestry doesn't give up everything at once, they hold back some things to keep you looking. Anyway you've found more Macaulays than I know what to do with.......... If Patrick was 69 in 1841 that makes him born 1772 right? But I don't see Edward in any of those families, had he moved out ? He got married in 1848 so he was probably living elsewhere. I am so thankful to you Jean for all the help you give me . I told you I print everything because I'm not good at going back to find things on the computer so now I'll sort all the papers out ( I am good at filing). I'll be in touch, thanks again, Pat