Hi Carol, i got the info about williams wedding to isabella teer at the record office at whitehaven, wrote it all down, but i cant believe that i dont have whether or not hes widowed etc! Ill have to go again, (should have photocopied it) but it wont be for a few days. But with what you said it all seems to be slotting into place. I THINK ... That William (1851) was married before isabella, to E.Quayle, and william walter, who ive never found on a census, was their child. Maybe Elizabeth died and he left william walter to be brought up by grandparents etc? Do you have him on censuses? Please forgive any mistakes as i seem to have information over load!! but in a good way. If william walter isnt isabellas son then he isnt related to my family but its stil lvery interesting. I dont just have my direct line im interested in all connections. my email address is d.mathers@talktalk.net