D245 Manorial Records post 1828

Introduction

One effect of the revestment of 1765 was to separation of the Manorial rights of the Lord of Man from the regalities purchased by the Crown - in effect it removed from the then Lord, the Duke of Atholl, the automatic protection of the Courts to enforce his extraction of land rents and other lordships (eg revenue from mining licences). The initial years post 1765 saw a major dispute over the ownership and control of the necessary records of land ownership - one component of the compromise reached between the Crown and the 4th Duke was the creation of the role of Seneschal to both keep the necessary records and to collect the rents due; After 1828 when the Duke of Atholl sold his manorial rights to the Crown this position of Seneschal came under the nominal control of the British Government department of Woods & Forests who thus paid and appointed the Seneschal - it would appear that that records keeping was allowed to deteriorate as reported in 1898. The Lord's rent was abolished in 1911.

Attempt to bring the books up to date

Tynwald Court November 8 1898 [Hansard p261 ]

8.11.1898 LORD'S RENT.

Mr J. R. Cowell asked if the attention of his Excellency had been called to the Lords' rent books, to the state in which the books were found, and also to the fact that it was utterly impossible for the moars to collect the rent, and that, as a consequence of that inability, they were called on to pay the rents themselves ?

The GOVERNOR said the subject had received attention from him, and he might say that if that question had been asked seven years ago it would have received quite a different answer to be given to it now. From the papers in the Government Office, and from reports in the newspapers, it would appear that the organisation for the collection of these rents was in a state of chaos. The setting quest was not constituted, the public were not fulfilling their duty, no notice being given to the moars of any change, and the moars did not perform their duties. All that was changed now; a thorough re-organisation having taken place, which was due to the energy and tact of the Seneschal.

His Excellency then read the report of the Seneschal upon the subject, as follows :—

The Seneschal states that, excluding the towns and companies, he believes that of the 25 parishes, abbeys, and baronies under his charge, 16 are practically up to date. The others are making good progress. As an example, during the sittings that are just concluding over 700 different cases have been presented to the Seneschal. The work of the identification of some small items, most of them dating from the beginning of the century, or earlier, is very laborious, and can only be effected slowly unless undesirable pressure is to be put on the tenants. Tho work is, however, steadily progressing, and great praise is due to the Setting Quests for their efforts to bring the books up to date,

With respect to the towns, efforts to bring these forward have been relaxed since the Bill for the sale of Lord's Rents was entertained, since the cost of rectifying the books would probably far exceed the cost of buying up the rents in the towns.

With respect to companies, legislation is needed to admit of their entry; at present their non-entry is a hardship.

If there is failure to have the tenants' names entered, there would be ground of complaint; but, on the contrary, they are invited — even noticed and pressed — to make the entries.

(Signed) G. DRINKWATER.

His Excellency added that this report showed that the books had been gradually brought into a state of perfection which had not obtained for a long time, and there was every reason to hope that the most excellect system of registration which had been adopted would give no room for any complaint. (Hear, hear)

Lockerby Case

This reference to 'seven years ago' was I think to the case of Mr W. C. Lockerby who, unwillingly, had been forced by an ancient arrangement, to act as Sergeant for the Abbey Lands of Braddan for year 1887/8 and to collect the rents of those lands totalling £6 19s. He claimed that he had not been correctly apointed nor could he collect the rents as the books had not been kept and many of the tenants named were dead for many years - he was summoned by the Attorney-General to pay the required sum but instead of following the previous appointees decision to merely pay the asked for sum themselves objected by means of a petition to Tynwald which in effect charged the various Officials concerned with corruption.[see long account in the Manx Sun, Saturday, 10th May 1890 under title "The Lord's Rent Case"] it finally resulted in a Committe of Tynwald reporting on the accusations made by Mr Lockerby

This Committe's meeting was reported in the Isle of Man Times, Monday, 23rd June 1890 where it found the charges against the named public official were reckless and unfounded but did however conclude with

The Abbey Lands Book of Braddan was produced, and referred to in the evidence of Petitioner; but, in the absence of the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, and of any body upon their behalf, we did not proceed with a full investigation thereof.

The Committee, however, think it fair to Petitioner to say that, prima facie, the book furnished to him was wholly insufficient for the purpose and does not seem to be kept as regularly as it ought, to be, and they recommend that some proper inquiry be made into the same with a view to an improvement in that manner of keeping these books; but, as to the charges made against the Attorney-General and his Honour Deemster Drinkwater, they report that the charges made against each were made recklessly and without the slightest foundation.

Extinction of Lord's Rents in Towns

The Abbey Lands Braddan contained few properties but it finally drew attention to the much greater problem of the Towns - Douglas in particular - thus in 1894 there was the start to abolish Lord's rents in the Towns as reported in the Isle of Man Times, Tuesday,4th December1894

LORDS' RENT IN TOWNS. PROVISION FOR ITS EXTINCTION.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : I move the first reading of a Bill, the object of which is to enable the Town Commissioners of the towns to extinguish the Lords' rent, and for other purposes? The Bill is brought in in consequence of difficulties which have arisen, both as regards the Crown, the Lord of the Island, and the towns, Douglas particularly. The Lords' rents in the towns are very difficult to collect. In Douglas it is particularly so, and perhaps it is impossible to collect them all. The Moars have complained very much about it, and the difficulty, must increase as town improvements go on.

First of all by the making Victoria-street, and then by the present improvement, it is hard to find the places which should pay rent. Perhaps a place subject to rent may really be the middle of a thoroughfare. This leads to great confusion. The matter was before Mr Walpole, the late Lieutenant-Governor. He consulted the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, and it was understood that something would be done by way of extinguishing the Lords' rents, but he went away before anything could be effected.

The matter was then taken up by the present Governor. He called the Commissioners before him taking Douglas first. The Commissioners of that town said that they would be only too glad to fall in with it, provided that there was a fair contribution towards the cost from the Commons' Trustees. I think some of the other Commissioners agreed. One gentleman from Peel said he thought the Governor should pay the whole thing out of the general revenue; and the Castletown Commissioners, I understand, do not want to have anything to do with the matter. They wanted to have power to take an assignment of the rents, leaving it to them to make bargains with the people afterwards, but that gives an opening to a kind of jobbery, which is undesirable.

The Bill only applies to towns, but the Tynwald Court may by resolution extend it to village districts. The amount to be paid will have to be approved by the Tynwald Court, and the Commons' Trustees would pay a fixed proportion of such amount, and after that is done the town concerned will have no further claim on the Common Lands. Then service, as regards the collection of rents, is extinguished so far as the towns are concerned. I cannot imagine any objection to that from even the country parts of the Island.

Deemster DRINKWATER : Has the Woods and Forests settled the number of years' purchase ?

The GOVERNOR : No; it is merely an enabling

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : I move the first reading of the Bill.

The VICAR-GENERAL : How does it affect the entry of properties ? .

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL : That is abolished.

The VICAR-GENERAL : It will affect the revenue. .

The GOVERNOR : There is nothing to prevent the entry being made.

Deemster GILL seconded the motion, which was carried unanimously. The Council then rose.

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