Hi Frances,

Your message read :-
footnote in Vic history
Lord Fitz Walter on succeeding found that many of the charters were in the hands of Thurstan Tyldesley, as executor of the John Radcliffe who died in 1513; but Thurstan professed his willingness to deliver them up, as soon as he was assured as to the heir; Duchy of Lanc. Plead. xiz, R. 1.
The Tyldesleys came over with Stanleys in 1405 - Thurstan Tyldesley crops up in some Manx records
You are correct in saying that hunting down the route by which the abbot story emerges would help - certainly it appears that Radcliffes were not in possession of Knockaloe until some time later.

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As ever, that is a great help, many thanks, and I realise I have overlooked a clue I already had in my possession and ought to have remembered. I have studied the Tyldesley family in Lancs, trying to sort out the various Thurstans etc prior to the appearance in the IOM in the 1530s. My current opinion is that Hugh Tildesley died in 1434, leaving a son Thurston, who was in turn succeeded by his son John, and his Grandson Thomas Tyldesley, the latter dying in 1495. Thomas had married Anne Radclyffe, who it is my belief was the daughter of Sir William Radclyffe of Ordsall, (1435-1497) and his wife, Jane Trafford.

Some time prior to 1497, Thomas Tyldesley and Anne Radclyffe had a son, selecting the name Thurstan yet again, and it was with him that the IOM association reappears. Thomas, Earl of Derby, had died whilst his son was still a minor, so his affairs were supervised by the Crown, and the State papers of King Henry VIII for 6 February 1523, reveal a Tyldesley role in the Isle of Man almost a decade earlier then the 1532 date usually quoted. On that day, papers were filed regarding Thurstan Tyldesley, Receiver for the Earl of Derby for properties in Yorkshire, Westmoreland, Cumberland, Cheshire, Flint, the Marches of Wales, Lincoln and the Isle of Man.

I assume that THIS Thurstan is the guy who was executor to John Radcliffe who died in 1513, but would like to check further. If that is the case, then Thurstan Tyldesley is an in-law to the Radclyffes of Ordsall, and seemingly there is a link to the FitzWalter family as well.

It seems clear that Rita Browne got the Abbot of Rushen story wrong, but if Tyldesley had a role in the IOM in 1523 and a much bigger role by 1532, then it may be that it was through Tyldesley that the Radcliffes first came to the Island. That makes perfect sense, as the whole story of the early Derby era is of friends and in-laws who you could trust being found places in the administration. If I dig deeply enough, I may find that one of Ann Radclyffe’s siblings had a son or grandson Thomas. If so Thurstan was looking after a cousin.

Ironically, whilst I have doubts about the FitzWalter line, I think that Rita B may have been closer to the truth than we expected, and she may have pointed us in the right direction.

It would be nice if she really was on the right track, as I think she did a great deal of good reparing the harm of the 1850s bonfire, and for that reason, I am reluctant to criticise her.