Many thanks Sue and Frances for all the information I have plenty to work on. My Thomas Sayle died in 1869 aged 68, I have his death cert and photo of his grave so that puts his birth at 1801 as the 1861 uk census says. So this seems to be correct. Thomas and Sarah, his second wife who was 20 years younger than him, moved to Runcorn Cheshire where he was a lock keeper and where the family was brought up.
Many thanks ROY