Sylvia, Thank you again. That makes sense as my father said that his father(James Junior married to Henrietta Gibson) used to spend six months a year doing the "Toast Racks" on Douglas prom and six months running his building business in Liverpool. and I know they had a horse and carriage at their home in Liverpool. It's James senior that I'm desperate to sort out now. The most likely one is that James born1835 married to Sarah and he was a groom but the 'born in Gloucester' flummoxes me! The James Junior on that 1831 census aged 14 and apprentice joiner fits in as well. Do you think that? I can't find James Jun on 1861 census and he is said to be born in Port Erin.I can't find him on a Liverpol 1861 census either.
Regards, Shirley.