Wow! I knew nothing of that at all! Thank you so very much ! The Philip who married Cath Kelly had a son Philip bapt 9 March 1788 who was 2nd born but I think the eldest Edward must have died young cos the 5th son bapt 1796 was also named Edward leaving Philip as oldest living and I didn't know what happened to him so maybe he had a son John! It's another thought for me thank you!