Thanks yet again Frances! I had seen the burial for Philip at Onchan but discounted it because I reckoned he should have been 85 but I know how easy it is to mishear 5's and 9's and I'm sure it was similar in those days! I also searched the 1841 census to find where in Lonan Philip was living but I couldn't find him! He didn't die until dec 1841 so I thought he should be on a census somewhere! By 1841 'my' Matthias was working as a farm steward at Crogga , Santon! Recorded on one of the genealogy sites as Kudej rather than Kewley Again, I haven't t found any info on Philip or wife ,who, I think was Cath Kelly regarding Wills! They married Onchan 1785 but there is no trail for her before or after marriage,! I still can't prove Philip son of Stephen, is father of my Matthias