Sue, thanks for all your effort today. Having looked at all the cenus available I feel that date of C: 1857 is fairly accurate - also the addresses of all involved makes this very feasible. What I was hoping to find is a copy of the registration of his birth noting his parentage. Where could I apply for this and get a copy of the entry to place in my files. Would it have survived all these years. Also where do I get land records for this period showing ownership of property?