hi len, thankyou for the fast reply , i was looking at some films and will have to take another look as i had that wrong, i do not have the certificate and was probably looking at the match ups and had not looked into it any further , i do not have any other roney family members and am looking at corris, sayle, mcneil, kelly and greggor ( peel) also kermode,but once again thanks to you i have been steered in the right direction