thanks Dorothy for your information, i ruled this family out but did think they were my family at one point. William has caused me lots of hassle because most of the time his middle name has been dropped from the census. I'm coming over to the isle of man to check birth records as i now think i'm on the right track but need to check out two birth records for a William Gawne 1861 as i know his father was Thomas but one record doesn't record fathers name. I believe his mother is Ann Callow birth 1833(onchan). The other record names mother as Elizabeth, father name not recorded. Thomas and William both moved to Liverpool and became fireman. I am hoping to trace any relatives of Ann Callow and Thomas Gawne born 1830,hoping some ancestors may still live on the isle of man, thanks again for your help. Any other information will be very welcome, Debbie