thankyou susan for your reply,i am very happy to have found someone else who has some info on cleave.
yes this is the same one both father and son were bakers jane was my great grandmothers sister , jane remarried as a widow in1889 to a joseph crellin, i have the marriage for margaret and also alfred but not mary yet and until now both cleaves have been a puzzle .
i am in canada and hopefully will be in the isle of man next year . i am at newtake@pathcom.com maybe we can swop info if you want.