Thanks Averil i will check all out,but i am pretty sure we have checked it,
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Joan,
the robert henry cain you mention is the son of john henry cain, it is the father of john henry cain i am looking for, who also is called robert,
infact i cannot find robert cain nor his son john henry cain in the census,
John henry only shows up in 1901 with wife edith ann and lily [ who is actualy lydia cowle and not cain by birth,] and Robert henry who is my grand father,
they had a nother boy called john robert 13 th april 1893 , but i think he died, so then they have in 1894 robert henry,
All this and they did not marry till 1917, then two years later in manchester there son robert henry marries elizabeth race