Hi Bruce, and Brian thank you so much for all that information. I was just going to ask about Sarah Jane i got a bit confused then.
I thought that was James in the 1881 census but was,nt to sure, im glad that Elizabeth is with her father i thought that he had given the children to someone else in the family to look after.
I believe there was a few more children born to Francis and ellen/helen, Bruce would you be able to confirm this?. And where could they be?

kind regards debbie