thanks len yes you may have the answer i had not thought of looking at her brother side . it is my cousin in the isle of man that told me she married a horne. so now i will look at the curphyside i really do appreciate your help . this has been a puzzle for a long long time .i am in canada so will look at brins site which i have found really helpful over the years .and i will also order the films to look atso once again thakyou so much and i will let you know how it works out.