Hi Len, thanks for the suggestion Indeed Evan and Ellen are our direct ancestors. It gives Charles as his father. For the past 20 years I have been searching for Charles, in and around Manchester. Then a suggestion was made about the Isle of Man. As it seems to be the only place I can find the surname late 1700s it seems sensible to make that assumption. But he died before the 1851 census, and the 1841 census in that street in Manchester is almost unreadable, but I think it says N for born in this county ie Manchester. You see there is a danger of clutching at straws.
Thanks anyway
Dot