That's the problem Sue! John Palmer died somewhere at sometime when the vessel he was on sank during a storm (story from US relations) He had 2 children born with him as father in Jan and November 1872 in Dunkerque so he must have been alive to father the last child and I have tried for a few years to find him - paid researchers - been in touch with Kew - usual stuff. I assume he died in foreign waters. On the 1871 he was in Sunderland of all places with his family and got in touch with Port of Sunderland and they were very helpful trying to look for a record for him and then he is back in France to father the last two children that I know about. So you can safely assume that it was after 1872 he went "missing". It would have helped to know his death to check on the Rennie marriage. Julia is on the 1891 as widow Rennie and she is a greengrocer in Wales with John Rennie's daughter and also children from John Palmer. From there she went to Liverpool where her daughter was living in Garstan - met and married Lee Whatling and is buried in Liverpool. Agnes Florence Rennie I traced living in Liverpool and found her grandson a few months back and he is in the dark about John Rennie as I am. Being sea going all the time both John's have moved around a lot especially my John (the Palmer one) who was born in Goole Yorkshire (another complete mystery and being born in 1835 may not have a registered birth; I know his father was William and that's it! I would think he sailed from the port in Goole and ended up on one trip meeting and marrying Julia in Guernsey and was a harbour pilot there for a time - off to France for a spell there and he may or may not have been to the Island but the family that didn't stay in France ended up at some point on the Island and in 1885 in Peel and same address as the Rennie child was born Julia's daughter Annie Palmer gave birth to a son - Albert Arthur Palmer - no father named!!...Another Palmer story was my grandfather Albert Palmer should have turned up for work one morning (member of a ship's crew) and was "under the weather" and didn't make it. The name of the ship according to the story was the "Ellan Vanim"!!!! (have I spelt that correctly?) Anyway that doesn't find a marriage cert. does it Sue!!!