Donna, as always so grateful for your help. A few queries. I wonder why Thomas Moore who md Eleanor Kneen was in your message chr 1788 Patrick. I have Eleanor chr 1797 Patrick but Thomas Moore 1785 Arbory. They got md in Arbory Jan 1813 & witnesses were a Thomas Clague & a James McDowell (Manx museum look up - no idea who those 2 men were!) Thomas & Eleanor later lived at Knocksharry which would tally with German parish for their descendants. I also thought Eleanor Kneen's parents were John & Jane Kermode & 2 of El's chn were a John & Jane. How can I find out for certain if Thomas Moore's ( who md El Kneen) parents were John Moore/Ann Callister or Thomas Moore /Mary Cashin. Thos / Mary md in Rushen 1784 & their witnesses were Henry Lowey & Ev. Qualtrough. ( Manx museum - Looked like Ev: but could have been something else). Gosh it's hard work !