Dear Ms. Viv,

I am interested in your Cain/Cayne line, for we had a WILLAM in 1600 in Kirk Michael, our line ,he had lands in the area of which your speak and It seems in ORRISDAL, the land in between is where you seem to be Identifying, could you perhaps give some of your CAIN/Cayne line .

I went back into a discussion of NOVEMBER 2004 , DISCUSSION STRING regarding the dropping MAC, Mc AND Inc in MANX surnames in this string were Ms. Frances Coakley, Ian Killip, Greg Kaighin , Nigel G. Crowe,, John Caine.

Nigel G, Crowe, Date: SATURDAY, 20 NOVEMBER, 2004, at 10:35 p.m.

In Responce To: Re; Ilegal Manx Me******names (Ian Kllip)

Mr. Crowes states in the message:

I can only speak for the Mylchreests where my Ballaharra lineage is proved back to Willaim McMYichreest of Kerrowgarrow, German, died 1644, Earlier there were McGilchrists living on the German Abbeylands(e.g. in 1540) who are probably the same line but presently unproven. In 1513 there are a few NcGilchrists and an Ine Gilchrist in Lezayre.

For the date when the Manx Mac Names became hereditary, see Pro. R.L. Thomson's article in the Proc. L.O.M.N.N. & A.S.
It all has to do with when the forenames were current, For example in 1511/1513 many men were called by English or Norman names like John, Thomas, Robert, William , Edmund as well as Gaelic ones like Finlo, Donald, Mold &c.
If the patronymical names had formed on John Willim Robert Thomas i.e. Kewin, Quilliam, Crebbin, Camish instead of the enormous spread of names such Cathain>Cain: Caannain>Cannon: Caisin>Cashen: Luathod>Clague: Anghois>Creer: Sveinn>Quine: as the Thor names & so on

This is all fascinating. I t would be good to plot the distribution of the surnames in 1511/1513/1540 to see if there were particular areas where the names stemming from Gaelic, Norse, and Norsemen names were clustered. You could look at the McGil, names too,but I think they are just as "Manx" as the other formed on Gaelic stems.
Obviously there are lots of Manx names formed on the Gaelic fornames which were still popular in 1511= Kinley, Cannelll, Cubbon+ you could see if they has a different distribution. Just as a taste in Baldwin almost all the name were formed on obsolete Gaelic names, Quine, Kelly, Cowin, Lewin, Creer, Cannon altho' there were exceptions.
Finish of Nigel Crowe's comments,

My comments:Jonnie Ruth Rosa now about this thread in 2004.

Names as CAYNE, CAINE , KANE,
O'CAIN, McCain, CATAHIAN,, it seems to come back to one blood of Manx, if you look at LAWSONS, wbm, under CAIN, SEE HIS MANY NAMES LISTED.

I believe the Isle had much intermarriage, many intermarried to keep there lands, they had to intermaryy, and did, cousins, I know for a fact this does happen, for it had happened here in the USA with our Cains and some never married to keep their lands and money. We, the CAINS, CAYNE, O'CAIN,. McCAIN's and Cathain, are to me as stated above, name changes brought about and dropping of the Mac, Mc, O, and etc, it is where the NORSE was a part, and I disagree, with the IRISH side of the Coin, for some CAINS, were put in the Census here as COINS, I do believe, even though they are those who say my family is not even off the Isle, when we had a family Bible showing this, we had our research done years ago,we are re-researching for the Bible, but under the WILLIAM IN 1600, COMING Foward, Patrick Caine, ADAM CAINE, and John , Patrick sr, who left THE Isle, and Patrick jr, killed at Slaughterfield in the Revoluntinary War. So I would be interested in your side, since your WILLILAM is from KK MICHAEL. and the place where you are discussing is where ORRISDAL, seems to be situated.

We have plans to be there in OCTOBER, and do our re-reseacch.

I look forward to hearing from you.
If you would like to correspond off the board my e-mail adrress is:
joeds9@barnwellsc.com

Kindly yours,

Mrs. Rosa